Holding Space for Curiosity

Shelby and Khara discussed their personal growth, artistic journeys, and the importance of trusting the process in their work. They also reflected on their astrological transits and the impact of Neptune's movement on their lives, as well as their evolving relationships with social media and leadership. The conversation concluded with a focus on the need for change and embracing new experiences, emphasizing the importance of presence and slowing down to appreciate everything.

Find Shelby and Khara on instagram:

Shelby
Khara

Shelby's interactive journal:

The Identity Field Guide

Transcript

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Shelby Wagner: Hira, I said to you earlier today, consistently inconsistent. And I think, recording

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Shelby Wagner: podcast episodes like 4 months apart, maybe is the essence of that

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Khara Collins: Yes, it's you know, quality, not quantity is how we're operating

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Khara Collins: very long period of time to go without podcasting, especially with all the different transitions happening between the New Year and all the planets and retrogrades. And whatever I'm like, gosh! You could write a book on what's happened since then.

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Shelby Wagner: Right. A whole new world has been born, and I mean, I think the funnier thing is that you and I, I don't think, have even seen each other in a virtual realm. Since then, like these podcasts have these episodes have prompted us to speak in real time, just not over Boxer notes. So it's good to see your face moving on the screen, too.

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Khara Collins: Yes, same, yeah, that is like, it's so funny because we have like such a deep relationship. But we like barely see each other's faces like what? And now we finally made plans to meet in person like Whoa

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Shelby Wagner: Right. I mean, how many people out there have a friend that they call a good dear friend, that they have not met.

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Shelby Wagner: and that they've had for almost 2 years

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Khara Collins: Pen pals.

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Shelby Wagner: Oh, I love it! And so I'm excited here in this month of April, and newness, and spring

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Shelby Wagner: to see what we have coming up for ourselves. You know, a lot of our episodes we're just saying have been about what's emerging, you know what's often what often we're letting go of and

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Shelby Wagner: don't really know a time in life when we're not moving through that cycle. And so hopefully, it doesn't feel like a broken record to hear that yet again new things are emerging, new things are being birthed, and and some things are being let go.

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Shelby Wagner: But I am excited to talk about. You know what is coming up, what evidence we are seeing out in the world. And

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Shelby Wagner: just kind of yeah, reorient and route into this new season and this New year, and

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Shelby Wagner: see where spring is taking us

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Khara Collins: Nice

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Khara Collins: spring has sprung. It's 88 degrees here today. I know it's probably like not even close to that up there where you are

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Shelby Wagner: 35, 35 last night, and now it's raining, and that's spring in Minnesota.

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Khara Collins: I guess it's like the April showers, whatever like

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Shelby Wagner: Yeah, I have to always like, am I was like, is it April? Is it May? When? When are we raining? And when are we getting the flowers

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Khara Collins: I'm ready for the flowers

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Shelby Wagner: Yeah. So I think where I'm excited to explore and talk about is.

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Shelby Wagner: you know, what come came up for me is my recent art. You know I've talked about some of my art, and in past episodes where almost a year ago.

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Shelby Wagner: this heart art kind of took shape, and this piece that I created that started with one single heart on a piece of paper

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Shelby Wagner: which spurred a mosaic of colorful triangles

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Shelby Wagner: that at the time, you know it was like, Oh, this feels like a spring scene, and there's flowers, and there's this spring sky, and this feels magical. And I made it and created it and turned it into a card. And

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Shelby Wagner: then, you know, months went by and I was like, well, that was fun. And didn't think much of it. And then, you know, November, December.

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Shelby Wagner: a couple more came online. And then this past month, you know, I think I've made like 5 more.

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Shelby Wagner: And it's just been this curious time of exploring creativity in a new way.

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Shelby Wagner: You know, for the past I feel like

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Shelby Wagner: solid. 3 years I've been exploring, just being able to claim

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Shelby Wagner: creativity and being a creative as as a title, as a role as a world I live in.

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Shelby Wagner: And so for these last, like, you know, month, month and a half to like

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Shelby Wagner: all of a sudden, feel this creative energy that is emerging in like a tangible way, and then in a way that, like someone might say like, Hey, that's art

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Shelby Wagner: has been wild and in that theme of emerging.

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Shelby Wagner: you know. It's like, Oh, there is this like new identity around creation, you know. For a long time I've

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Shelby Wagner: I've understood, like I love writing. I enjoy expressing myself and seeing myself in that creative way. You know, I've made the guide on Forgiveness and the Identity Field Guide, and I've made tangible things. I've brought these ideas down to real life. I've experienced that.

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Shelby Wagner: But there's something been different about this process this past year of learning to sit with a blank page.

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Shelby Wagner: and starting with a heart in the middle and seeing where it takes me.

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Shelby Wagner: And what's come up more recently is that I've been able to have

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Shelby Wagner: visions of an end in mind, visions of a heart art piece

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Shelby Wagner: that conveys a certain emotion or has a certain flow to it.

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Shelby Wagner: To see that in my mind and sit down to the blank page has been like this new.

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Shelby Wagner: this new phase for me. And so today I was kind of like putting all of this together

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Shelby Wagner: as another person's art journey prompted something for me. And so, just to read these thoughts that

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Shelby Wagner: are coming to me right now in my journal.

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Shelby Wagner: learning to trust what emerges a lesson. Art has been teaching me whether it's uncertain. Beginnings with one little heart

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Shelby Wagner: are starting with an end in mind. Both experiences are teaching me to trust the unfolding.

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Shelby Wagner: especially when I have a vision I see so clearly.

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Shelby Wagner: One never truly knows where the journey could take them. If they hold it all loosely.

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Shelby Wagner: It's wild to think how hard art has shown me this, and in this moment I see how it's teaching me to bring that same approach to facilitation and conversation.

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Shelby Wagner: to start with heart and trust the flow, follow the signs, my instincts checking in along the way.

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Shelby Wagner: not shying away when it feels messy

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Shelby Wagner: or not, as planned as I thought, but trusting in the overall experience, recent opportunities with creative mornings.

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Shelby Wagner: community workshops, different collaborations, all calling for a different flow and structure.

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Shelby Wagner: So

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Shelby Wagner: it's just been really interesting, because actually, back in October, at an event, I pulled a an oracle card.

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Shelby Wagner: and the intention I was looking for was, you know, insights about my work, and the card said.

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Shelby Wagner: Make make art your work, make work your art. I think it was. Make work your art. And I was just like, what does that mean? Like? I know it doesn't mean

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Shelby Wagner: I'm going to be an artist.

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Shelby Wagner: And even as I say that I'm like I don't know. Maybe maybe that is part of it. Maybe part of my work is being an artist.

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Shelby Wagner: but I love that. It's teaching me this lesson about how I show up and facilitate and hold space for conversation.

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Shelby Wagner: because I've come from the world of you know it. And the corporate world where there's a structure in this plan, and I think I've always prided myself on being a person

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Shelby Wagner: who can pivot in the moment who's like here. Here's the plan I have. But let's see where the conversation takes us.

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Shelby Wagner: But I feel like I'm being called to

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Shelby Wagner: do that on a bigger scale.

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Shelby Wagner: One with like like a staged community experience

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Shelby Wagner: where I am having a plan for conversation, but truly like trusting the unfolding, letting the audience be a part of the experience and conversation, and knowing that, like

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Shelby Wagner: I can't control, and that is the beauty

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Shelby Wagner: of like what would come up for people and what the interaction will like, generate, or what it will even spark in me. In that moment.

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Shelby Wagner: And that feels really big and risky

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Shelby Wagner: to be on a stage, right? It's 1 thing to be in a workshop, and you know, but to like to have all eyes on you and holding space for curiosity

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Shelby Wagner: feels really big

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Khara Collins: Okay, I love this holding space for curiosity, like, what a

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Shelby Wagner: I'm writing that I'm writing that down right now.

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Khara Collins: Yes, I'm like, Yeah, that is like, Wow, what a like powerful thing to be able to do. And I don't know. Just holding space in general is so important. But to get people to a place where they feel vulnerable enough to like, express their curiosity, or, like, put it to paper is like

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Khara Collins: something really special, and it's been so cool to hear, to like be alongside of you while this artist archetype has unfolded in you, because I remember when we 1st started talking, you would talk about how like when you took notes, there would always be like Doodles and like, then you started like doodling, and you're like, well, I don't know, like I don't know if this is art. And now it's like morphed into this

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Khara Collins: whole different experience. And even in the last few months. It's like you've cranked out like so many pieces. And it used to be like our podcast months apart. And now it's like just flowing out of you. And it's really cool to see like the different milestones. You've hit people like engaging with your work and asking about it. And now like even looking into, possibly showing in galleries like, what are you

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Shelby Wagner: Yeah, right? We'll see about that.

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Khara Collins: I know

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Khara Collins: it's it's really awesome to be able to challenge yourself and kind of push yourself in this direction, even though it might be like uncomfortable, but just to like notice, like what's coming up for you, and and really kind of push it a little bit to see like, where's this? Gonna take me

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Shelby Wagner: It is like this weird it's not always easy, you know, and

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Shelby Wagner: because there are definitely moments where it just does not feel

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Shelby Wagner: enjoyable to like. Feel that. Wait for the surprise and see how it's all gonna come together.

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Shelby Wagner: But right now I feel like I'm

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Shelby Wagner: I'm finally in a season where I'm getting to see some of the

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Shelby Wagner: some of the goodness of the seeds that I planted, and I don't know.

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Shelby Wagner: I don't know where it will go. But I'm excited to just stay on the journey, and it's 1 of those moments where

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Shelby Wagner: the journey is just as exciting as is where it's gonna take me

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Khara Collins: Yes, and the whole piece about the structure and flow like, I really feel like your work is such a expression, like a physical expression of the structure and flow like you can totally see it.

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Khara Collins: with the triangles surrounding the heart, and all the shapes that you use like, and the colors like it really is. It shows that balance that you get by having both

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Shelby Wagner: Yeah.

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Shelby Wagner: And I love that because it's it's always been like, the driving force of my work is like that making the soft stuff concrete.

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Shelby Wagner: And to even see that

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Shelby Wagner: take shape in different ways, whether it's creating the journal that people can hold and interact with, or, you know, creating art, that is.

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Shelby Wagner: you know, paired with my words sometimes in my stories. And so it's evoking emotion and getting people to think. And so it's always just that like blend of

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Shelby Wagner: that flow and structure, that soft stuff, that concrete, that intangible and tangible

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Shelby Wagner: which is also, you know, just coming through in the astrology for me right now, too, and like blending that world of the spiritual and the physical, and like knowing that this life journey is about taking what I've learned about

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Shelby Wagner: being in spiritual lives in the past

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Shelby Wagner: and threading that through this physical world, and

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Shelby Wagner: getting to be a person who embodies that and showing people like, how well, what does that look like? How do we bring spirituality down into the physical?

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Shelby Wagner: And

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Shelby Wagner: I think it's like that same parallel of like, how do we take these ideas and make them a reality and

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Shelby Wagner: like, how do we dance between those 2 spaces

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Khara Collins: Yes, and like in such a grounded way, too. I think that's like one of the things I love most about you. It's like you have this like spiritual, like Cloud person side. But you have this way of bringing it down to Earth, where it's like practical. And you know it's that whole Virgo Pisces access that we know and love

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Shelby Wagner: Or what was it? Just? Venus, Venus, and Cancer

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Khara Collins: Yeah.

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Shelby Wagner: Right, or was it

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Khara Collins: Venus. You're Venus and Taurus right

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Shelby Wagner: For us, yeah.

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Khara Collins: Yes.

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Shelby Wagner: Yeah, and that plantedness, that rootedness like that is, I mean, when I read that yesterday, Venus and Taurus, I was like, yes.

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Shelby Wagner: if it doesn't feel like it's rooted in reality. And somehow it just.

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Shelby Wagner: And that's what the whole healing space can can feel, or even spirituality right can feel

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Shelby Wagner: uncomfortable for me because I'm like. But how does this apply to now? Like we can't just float away like.

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Shelby Wagner: how do we still pay the bills and do the things and and operate on this like elevated expansive level. Like I, there needs to be both

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Khara Collins: Yes, yeah.

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Khara Collins: Well, what's coming up for you and what you know. What are you feeling called to share today?

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Khara Collins: Well,

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Khara Collins: Lately I have been reflecting on some of the different transits that we've had astrology wise, and that's 1 of the things I love most about. Astrology is how it always kind of comes back around, even if it's 165 years later, or whatever it might be. And you know already this year we've had a lot going on. There's been like multiple retrogrades, like Mars and

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Khara Collins: Venus and Mercury now, and the eclipses, and it has felt like a slow start. Which is welcome because it's been cold in my terms here. 70 degrees and windy and just not really feeling the you know, motivated vibes. But

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Khara Collins: Neptune just moved into Aries at the end of this last month, and

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Khara Collins: it had been in Pisces since 2011, and that just really struck me because 2011 was a huge year for me. I graduated college. I got married. I moved back to Texas, started a job at the refinery, and when I listed out all of these years that happened, there was like something major every single year that happened. That was just like, Wow, this was a lot like

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Khara Collins: like I said, 2,011 married New Job college, 2,012. I got promoted at the refinery, then 2013, my 1st house, 2014 switch to pipeline public awareness.

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Shelby Wagner: 2015 worked at a nonprofit completely changed.

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Shelby Wagner: Yeah.

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Khara Collins: 2016, had my son 2017 landed my dream job at the LNG plant,

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Khara Collins: 2018. Bought my second house, got promoted into leadership. 2019, divorced 2020, met Phillips

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Khara Collins: 2021 left the oil and gas industry and got married. 2022 is where I consider, like my spiritual awakening, really like kicked off. And I think, like.

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Khara Collins: did I meet you, I think? Did I meet you in 2022, or 2023,

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Shelby Wagner: 23,

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Khara Collins: Okay, yeah. So yeah, then, 2023 was the government job. And then in between all that, I met you and 24, I left that, and it just felt like the best year of my life last year, just because I wasn't working. And I felt like I had gotten to this point of like.

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Khara Collins: you know, finally detaching from like where the next money is coming from, being so stressed and worried about it, and just being able to appreciate like what I have and really enjoy this time right now, even though it might not last forever. It's like I need to enjoy this moment, and just before Neptune moved into Aries I found out I was pregnant in January. So it's just been this whole like cycle of

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Khara Collins: major events, and I with the eclipse. I had some questions come up

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Khara Collins: for me that I decided to like pull cards on, and then did a little reflecting. So I figured I could just like talk about that, and

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Khara Collins: kind of wrap up the themes that came through.

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Khara Collins: so I did this spread. I think it was like on the eclipse at the end of the month, and the 1st question was, What have I been fighting for out of habit, not desire? And I got the 4 of pentacles, and this is definitely one of those spreads which most of them are where it's like

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Khara Collins: kind of like a bitch lab where it's just like you already know. And so 4 pinnacles. The themes are stability control resources. And

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Khara Collins: where do I feel out of alignment with my deeper truth, and I got 5 of swords reversed, the Empress reversed, and the moon, and that was like struggling between authenticity and external expectations.

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Shelby Wagner: No.

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Khara Collins: Number 3 was, what beliefs or philosophies have I had to rewrite? And I got the 6 of pentacles, 9 of wands, the hanged man tennosaurs, dinosaurs, and the sun like when I do these. It's like I'm shuffling till some fall out.

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Khara Collins: don't!

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Khara Collins: There's like one. And sometimes there's like 6. Sure. And this was all like shifting. How I see giving and receiving, redefining, what leadership means to me, changing my approach to endings and true joy and confidence coming from like rewriting some of the stories that I'd been clinging to.

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Khara Collins: The 4th question was, Where have I overcorrected, held back, or hesitated, out of fear of judgment.

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Khara Collins: and I got 6 of wands and queen of wands, and it was just themes of like playing smaller than necessary, and despite having, like personal power and charisma, just like really keeping that hidden and like not stepping into being seen or leading like in a bold way.

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Khara Collins: And then the 5th one was, What does freedom look like for me, spiritually and emotionally, emotionally, and I got king of swords, which which is like clarity, mastery, detachment from the emotional noise.

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Khara Collins: And so when I sat with this, I was like, Wow, like, I feel like, I want to like, talk about all the things that relate to these like themes that came up because there were so many, especially with that whole timeline there was a lot to connect to. So this is what I wrote.

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Khara Collins: Neptune just finished up a 14 year transit in Pisces, and I've reflected on what I've outgrown and what's still lingering, and where I'm finally ready to let go. So much of my life was shaped by old stories about worthiness, overworking, overcompensating, proving myself just to feel like I deserved success, love or even basic stability.

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Khara Collins: That version of me is fading, but I can feel I can still feel some lingering that I need to let go of

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Khara Collins: leadership has been another big theme. I've spent years waiting to be chosen instead of fully stepping into it on my own. There were moments where I took the lead, but usually out of necessity, not because I truly owned it. Now, after everything I've learned, it feels different, like I'm finally ready to take up space, not because somebody else says I should, but because I choose to.

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Khara Collins: This transition I'm in now reminds me of. When I left Pipeline that departure hit hard. I held so much guilt and shame that I disappeared for a while like losing that identity meant losing myself. It took years to move through it, but eventually a new chapter opened up. And now I feel like I'm in a similar place, not held back by shame this time, but still untangling who I am outside of past roles and expectations.

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Khara Collins: Looking back, I see where I forced things pushed forward, got what I thought I wanted, but at the cost of burnout and misalignment.

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Khara Collins: Now I'm moving differently, not from external pressure, but from actual alignment. Letting go of old conditioning has been a process, but I can finally trust myself to build something new.

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Khara Collins: Neptune and Pisces brought themes of illusion, surrender, and detachment, and now that Neptune is moving into Aries, where it will eventually meet my natal moon and Mars. It feels like it's time for real tangible action. I still want to build a community. But before that I feel like, I need to share my own experience more openly.

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Khara Collins: Substack feels like the right space for that. And maybe podcasting too.

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Khara Collins: Instagram, though I've been pulling away social media has been a huge part of this Neptune and Pisces era, and my relationship with it has shifted a lot of what once resonated just doesn't anymore.

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Khara Collins: And then there's this full circle moment Neptune entered Pisces in 2011 and months later I got married. And now, as it exits, I found out, I'm pregnant, and it feels like I'm stepping into this new era with a whole new perspective, a whole new version of me.

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Khara Collins: and as much as I honor everything that's brought me here. I also know that some identities can't come with me where I'm going next.

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Khara Collins: Oh.

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Shelby Wagner: Woo.

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Khara Collins: Yeah, so.

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Shelby Wagner: Good.

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Khara Collins: Jesus

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Shelby Wagner: I love the take up space because I choose to mike in that recognition of

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Shelby Wagner: kind of continuing that journey to take up space within yourself.

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Shelby Wagner: you know, before you know, really opening the doors for community to join you.

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Shelby Wagner: Yeah, like, just feels so good, so good

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Khara Collins: Yeah. And it feels really good, too, even though it's felt really difficult along the way to like let go of you know what was taking up space before, which was largely like other people's stuff. And you know, just grappling with the guilt that comes with that has definitely been a process, and

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Khara Collins: I think it's 1 of those things that it feels like I've been talking about forever. But it's just not easy to do. And it, you know, you have these different like tests or situations that come up that like kind of remind you of you know who you once were. And it's like, are you gonna fall back into this pattern? Or are you gonna do twice

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Khara Collins: right?

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Khara Collins: And you know, I definitely had moments of falling back into the patterns. I think the biggest one was like the government job was really out of fear that I took that. And even though deep down, I knew I didn't want it. I was like, I need it right now. I don't have money, and I learned a whole lot from it. So it's not like it was the wrong thing or anything.

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Khara Collins: Yeah, it just it feels really good to be able to recognize these themes and kind of see the patterns in the recent past even, which is something that is kind of a new thing for me, like being able to be present enough to witness something unfolding, like as it's happening or

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Khara Collins: past, like several months, or whatever like I feel like. That's such a good skill to cultivate. And as somebody that you know, couldn't even close my eyes for like 3 seconds without shutting off the noise like it's been a whole process to be able to have that presence, and just like appreciate everything and slow down, really.

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Khara Collins: And you know now, also, entering this year 2 in numerology, it's

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Khara Collins: a lot about like learning and taking the back seat and kind of like being in the background and kind of sifting through all these like lessons. And

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Khara Collins: honestly, it's like relieving to hear that. But it's also you know, everybody else around me is like moving forward, and I'm like, I'm behind. But it's it's not like that at all. It's like one of those integration things. You know. It's like so much work has been done in the last few years like for me to truly move forward and embody this like new identity that I've like

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Khara Collins: uncovered really? It does take some of that space to like, integrate that and get comfortable with it before I like. Step out so

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Shelby Wagner: Feels like.

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Khara Collins: Like once again this emergence is happening. It's continuing. It's like the wings are drying

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Shelby Wagner: Great. Yeah. And it's, you know, when these, like new identities, are stepping forward. You know, it's an opportunity to also see like what you're shedding right? It's that classic butterfly metaphor.

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Shelby Wagner: but I think we think it like happens in just like this linear way. And as you like, share, you know your 14 year, timeline, and how you've looked back, and it's much more circular, and that we kind of come around again and again. You know, as I've received the the sign of the Snake, and that's that golden spiral upwards.

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Shelby Wagner: You know. We think we're going in a circle as we revisit these wounds. But really, we're we're leveling up with each rotation.

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Shelby Wagner: And you know, like.

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Shelby Wagner: I think, just listening to you contemplate these really big questions, you know, like habit versus desire, and authenticity versus external expectation, like there's so much like to sift through when you like, dare to ask those questions, and

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Shelby Wagner: how you would look at those like 5 years ago, or even 5 months ago. Right? Is always it's gonna be different than how you're looking at it right now. And so I think it's just like a beautiful example of

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Shelby Wagner: continuing being willing to continue to like. Look back in ways that you now have like a fresh perspective, right? And and noticing like what's different. What do you see about that now? And what are you willing

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Shelby Wagner: to heal? You know? Which parts are you willing to heal now, knowing what you know, you know, and I feel like you're gathering that like evidence and and continuing that like circular motion up, even though you're you're revisiting things that you know you've seen before, or thought about before, or even thought you healed before. So it's really it's really beautiful to witness

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Khara Collins: Yeah. And it feels really good, especially for so many of the things that have come up continually continually to see how you know they've been holding me back, or like letting go. I can't take them to this next level like I'm gonna have to let go and

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Khara Collins: You know, as uncomfortable as it is. It's like once something comes up so many times like you got to get sick of your own shit sometimes and make a change. And I really feel like that's that's what happens. That's what's happened for me and not that it's a bad thing. I think it had to happen that way, because.

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Khara Collins: you know it. It strips away all these illusions that I was caught in thinking like, oh, this is what I need, or this is what I want, and it's like, do you

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Khara Collins: Whose is that?

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Khara Collins: Right?

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Khara Collins: Well, and sometimes it's like it's not even necessarily like

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Shelby Wagner: Bad that that's who you were or that's what you wanted. Then

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Shelby Wagner: the the more important pieces. That's not who I am now, and that's that's not what's fueling me anymore. Right? It's

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Khara Collins: Yeah.

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Shelby Wagner: It's being able to like. Make that distinction.

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Shelby Wagner: and not like shame yourself for it, or have guilt, you know, like everybody's, had the the job that on day one felt like the dream job. And on the last day it was like fuck this place, you know, and it doesn't mean that it wasn't. It just isn't anymore. And so like daring to do the work and daring to let go, knowing that it just isn't anymore, you know, is the brave thing

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Khara Collins: Yes, definitely and and just letting that be okay, like. And I think that's, you know, part of my struggle with social media is like.

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Khara Collins: I have had social media probably since around 2,011, maybe a little bit earlier, and I am a completely different person from 14 years ago, as most of us are, and

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Shelby Wagner: Or should be right.

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Khara Collins: Yeah, hopefully. But you know, like, there's a lot of people on there that I'm not like super connected to anymore, and not that everybody every single person on there has to be, but it just feels like extra uncomfortable to be able to like to be changing yourself in such a seemingly drastic way and try to get comfortable like being that person. And then, just, you know, having all these like background thoughts about like, oh, what are they gonna think or like even getting comments about it. And it's like.

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Khara Collins: don't really need this, whatever this is.

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Shelby Wagner: Right.

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Khara Collins: And yeah, substack has been such a refreshing platform to be on, because it's just reading reading real material from like real people that are like

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Khara Collins: sharing their experience, and I don't know. It's like the perfect

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Khara Collins: kind of transition. Not that I'm necessarily leaving Instagram forever, but I have shut down my 2 oldest accounts, including my art account, which was

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Khara Collins: kind of a big deal for me. But I really feel like I'm just ready for something completely different. And sometimes that means starting over

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Shelby Wagner: Right? Yeah, and that starting over pieces you were talking about that

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Shelby Wagner: I was just reminded of like recently for me, making the like subtle distinction of like I. You know, I've let go of coaching, and that has been a big theme for the last 4 years, because mainly because that's why I thought I was leaving the corporate world was to do my own coaching work.

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Shelby Wagner: but then also going even deeper and saying, but also I'm not a workshop facilitator, you know, 2 months ago it was like.

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Shelby Wagner: Where am I going with my work? I've created these tools that I'm really excited about, and it feels like the natural progression is like great like now, host workshops. And I'm like, but I don't that I don't want to do that like that isn't nothing about that is me. And I was like

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Shelby Wagner: fighting with that for a little bit, because it was I was like, Am I being unrealistic like?

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Shelby Wagner: You know.

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Shelby Wagner: there's only so many roles I can play in the world of, you know, personal development, or you know. So I was telling myself. And I was like, I've I was like, I felt like a kid throwing a tantrum. I was like, but I don't want to. And and also it was like, okay, but no one's asking you to. You don't have to.

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Shelby Wagner: And finding my own like rhythm, like being willing to sit with that tension, you know, for a solid like 2 months of like. What? What is the deal here? What is the resistance? Why don't I want to do this? Because it seems like the natural next step. But I don't want to.

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Shelby Wagner: And then, you know, trying to not feel like guilt and shame about that like, oh, maybe I'm wasting everything by not doing this. Maybe I'm not being bold enough. Maybe I'm not being courageous enough, but coming out of the other side of that tension with actually, I want a different experience for myself and the people that I, you know.

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Shelby Wagner: provide a service to. And that's truly like a community conversation experience. It isn't a workshop. It isn't a i stand up front and I'm I'm telling you and teaching you, and you're receiving. It's I'm up here giving a story, sharing a story.

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Shelby Wagner: and I'm also inviting you into the story, and I'm hoping that by the time you leave, like you leave more connected to yourself and the person next to you. And you're feeling curious about what's next.

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Shelby Wagner: That's different. And it's just like

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Shelby Wagner: that starting over piece. And that letting go piece.

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Shelby Wagner: It's challenging, because sometimes we just don't even know what we're moving towards. We just know what we don't want anymore. But that is like the beginning is being willing to say like, I gotta let this go

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Khara Collins: Yes, and also just like trusting yourself enough to be able to step in that new direction, especially if it's not into another box which yours is definitely not right, like, it's totally different experience that you've been creating. And that's just yeah. It takes so much self-trust to be able to do that. And I feel like that's

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Khara Collins: for me. Been like one of the hardest parts is like being able to trust myself enough to like, know that it's gonna be okay, no matter what I choose. Because when I look back, even though things might have been misaligned, or, you know, ultimately not been what I wanted like it still always works out every single time, and no matter how much I worry or fret, or whatever like, it's always gonna work out, and just

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Shelby Wagner: Thank you.

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Khara Collins: Trusting and believing that while still like taking the action, whether it's, you know, working on myself or just, you know, sharing my experience, whatever it is like, I don't know. It's just so important to be able to like trust, like

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Khara Collins: your own inner guidance and know that it's going to be okay.

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Shelby Wagner: And I think, trusting that inner guidance is so big right now in the world.

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Shelby Wagner: You know, there's so many systems crumbling and being shifted, roles being taken away. And

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Shelby Wagner: I think there's gonna be a greater wave of people wrestling with. You know what you experience as you left. You know the oil industry of like, okay, that identity is gone.

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Shelby Wagner: You know. But so who am I now? Right? And so like losing that title

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Shelby Wagner: and losing self like, how do we not make that the 2 things linked together?

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Shelby Wagner: And so like, how do we become to be a collective

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Shelby Wagner: community that is, is restoring that inner compass, and so that we are going out in the world and doing the work we're here to do. Speaking up in the communities who are meant to speak up and create the spaces we're meant to create, right. But it's like you have to have that connection to that, that compass that voice.

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Shelby Wagner: to be able to take that risk

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Khara Collins: Yes, and you know you mentioned like more and more people like detaching or being forced to step away from

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Khara Collins: their jobs or comfort zones or whatever, and I have a reiki session scheduled tomorrow, and my practitioner, she lives in Thailand, and she was talking about like

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Khara Collins: how most of recessions right now are Americans, and a lot of them have been impacted by all of the government stuff going on. And I don't know. It is like

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Khara Collins: sad, but it's also kind of like exciting, because it's like, Oh, my God, there's gonna be a whole new wave of like a different way of living, you know, and it's already begun. And I don't know. I just. I'm choosing to be excited about that, because God knows we need some change. And you know, even though it's uncomfortable. It's like that's how you grow like sucks. But it's true

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Shelby Wagner: Yeah, yeah, I mean, and that's just the reality that's always been present. That, like, there's grief and loss alongside our joy and

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Khara Collins: Yes.

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Shelby Wagner: You know that

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Shelby Wagner: there's there's always been both. And there is definitely both. Right now, as people are. Yeah, being laid off and wondering how they will pay their bills. And those are real, very real

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Shelby Wagner: problems, and also holding hope for

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Shelby Wagner: hopefully the shifts that that space will bring. If people get the support that they need from their communities, right? And so

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Shelby Wagner: it it's both and always yeah, choosing, choosing hope

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Khara Collins: Yes, choosing hope.

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Shelby Wagner: Choosing hope.

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Khara Collins: Well, anything else that you want to add

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Shelby Wagner: I think I'm complete. I'm excited.

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Shelby Wagner: You know, there's definitely moments where it's like, what in the world is happening literally in our world. What is

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Khara Collins: Yes.

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Shelby Wagner: In the world is happening within me. But I remain rooted and on course.

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Shelby Wagner: just with my connection with you know the beautiful tools that you know, keep giving us insights like astrology and human design and numerology.

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Shelby Wagner: That say, like, we can navigate through this, we can get through this.

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Shelby Wagner: So just hoping people look to those synchronicities in life

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Shelby Wagner: that keep them moving forward and and doing the work they came here to do.

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Khara Collins: Yes.

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Khara Collins: so glad that we have these tools, because, honestly, I don't know what. I don't know what kind of path I would be on without especially astrology, because, you know, being able to see the personal patterns and the like communal patterns and just the world patterns really has been

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Khara Collins: so helpful and like just help, so helpful to be able to like.

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Khara Collins: see my own stuff and sift through it, but also see how the world is changing, and how it has changed this whole time, like it's just really

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Khara Collins: inspiring and inspires a lot of hope like you said so

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Khara Collins: yay to the next change to the next evolution

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Shelby Wagner: To the next evolution. Alright! Well, we'll leave it there, and let's hope we're chatting again sooner than later.

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Khara Collins: Yes, I mean we will in person, if nothing else.

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Shelby Wagner: All right, bye.

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Khara Collins: Bye.